Ireland Declares Climate Emergency

[Big H]

If the Greens had a manifesto that included anything other than 'tax the shite out of people just trying to get by', then they may have garnered more support......

[CitizenKane]

If the Greens had a manifesto that included anything other than 'tax the shite out of people just trying to get by', then they may have garnered more support......

But that's always been their manifesto, so I was amazed they had the level of support they did up to now..! Maybe the reality of being taxed into oblivion has started to kick in for people and outweigh the novelty of being climate conscious.

There definitely does seem to be a bit of a shift in public opinion on this stuff generally. At a corporate level too (which is where so much of it is driven from of course): apparently there have been record outflows of investors from ESG funds this year, and Larry Fink (the BlackRock guy who basically invented or at least championed the term) has said he will no longer use the term "ESG" because it's become "weaponised".

Interesting times..

[CitizenKane]

We're only starting to see the influx of Chinese EV's as they have massive over-production and are trying to cash in on the lucrative European market, but I'd imagine it's only a matter of time before we see additional tariffs on these entering Europe making them even less desirable.

You called it, and sooner than expected (I can’t help but feel they decided to rush this through before the next parliament kicks in given the increase in Green—sceptic MEPs coming out of the current elections):

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/202...n-chinese-evs/

It makes absolutely no sense either, I thought we were trying to save the planet?

“You must all start driving EVs to save the earth … unless they are cheap EVs from China which undercut European industrial interests”.

If any Green-sceptic person needed evidence that this is all a scam then it might just be this..

[Big H]

Until a time when EV's are at the same price (or less than) the equivielent ICE car, than many will walk on by.

eg. a new 520i M Sport comes in at c.€71k yet an equivielent i5 M Sport comes in at €92k (I know we're not comparing absolute like for like spec/performance wise maybe, but that is how many view it)

The running costs difference will pale into insignificance once EV depreciation hits a few years down the line - a fact lost on the PCP rental fan boys.....

[CitizenKane]

Having read a bit about the BYD Seal, I can certainly see why certain vested interests in the automotive industry here would be threatened…

Brand or nearly new AWD Performance models with 530bhp and with 0-60 time of 3.something seconds are retailing around €50k. Leaving aside the issues with battery longevity and resale value, etc. that apply to all EVs. what else even comes close to that in terms of performance for your money?

[Big H]

I'm sorry, but you can't leave aside those issues - I'd wage that performance isn't a factor in 90%+ of purchases either. Only a headbanger would go out and drop €50k cash on a BYD (or soon to be €60k after the mooted 20% tariff increase). I haven't checked, but I'm assuming there has to be some attractive PCP rental deals ongoing to entice people ?

For a start, what non-BYD dealer is going to take it in as a trade at 5yo - you won't get 10k for it I guarantee you - who the hell is going to buy one at 5yo after the manufacturer warranty has expired (granted, the actual battery warranty is probably longer).

Western Europeans are a fickle lot and are willing to pay premiums for premium and/or well established/proven brands and that isn't going to change any time soon.

Why does the Toyota Hilux outsell the far cheaper (and I'm sure just fine) SsangYong Musso probably 100:1 in Europe ?

[CitizenKane]

I agree with all that in terms of EVs vs. ICE cars. But I was thinking more in terms of BYD vs. other EVs. The quoted performance of the Seal AWD is pretty similar to an Audi RS e-Tron GT for example, at only a third of the price, and both will have the issues you mention about resale value.