Road carnage this week (every week)

Hate to say it, but the majority are young lads - since last Sunday there have been countless close shaves that I've come across. I was putting it down to the change in weather and lethal roads which are so slick with the rain after a long spell of blazing sunshine.

These ain't fender benders lads, look at the damage and destruction in each accident below. For example, how do you do that on that particular bridge on the quays is beyond me. RIP to all. Needless needless waste.

Last night on the quays
http://cdn2.independent.ie/incoming/...620/crash3.jpg

The weekend in Donegal
http://i2.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-...sh-2121523.jpg

Meath over the weekend
http://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_f..._330/image.jpg

And the one I just missed in Dublin last Sunday
http://cdn1.independent.ie/irish-new...8411522_I1.JPG

The Meath one was just up the road from me, it's a B road that you could hold an F1 race on, it's a fantastic wide road that I've no idea why they built it so "good" if you get me.

Poor young lad, RIP!

Fookin brutal way to go alright dude. The one on the quays last night was a stolen taxi - still someones son.

Shockin images there :(

I don't know if its because cars are getting cheaper or whatever but every second car has a young lad in it and they drive them like they are immortal. I always get them pulling along side looking for a bit of a dice but I never play along, I'd hate to be the cause of one of them loosing control. My car will stick to the road, theirs probably will not

This is it id say at least half the blame is on the cheap ass tyres them cars had fitted mixed with other things of course like people driving beyond there capabilites

But 4 different makes of cheap wanli tyres that are probably down to 2mm mixed with greasy roads and a bit of speed is a recipe for disaster

You know what these crash's lead too though more checkpoints on roads were there are never crash's and a whine about reducing speed limits on the news they should ban them cheap chinese tyres

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Originally Posted by ciars

Hate to say it, but the majority are young lads - since last Sunday there have been countless close shaves that I've come across. I was putting it down to the change in weather and lethal roads which are so slick with the rain after a long spell of blazing sunshine.

These ain't fender benders lads, look at the damage and destruction in each accident below. For example, how do you do that on that particular bridge on the quays is beyond me. RIP to all. Needless needless waste.

Last night on the quays
http://cdn2.independent.ie/incoming/...620/crash3.jpg

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Running away from the guards with someones lively hood i suspect will do this to you. Waste of good organs ruining the lives of people they touch.

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Originally Posted by 318iS54

The Meath one was just up the road from me, it's a B road that you could hold an F1 race on, it's a fantastic wide road that I've no idea why they built it so "good" if you get me.

Poor young lad, RIP!

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Turns out I do know the chaps sister as she's a waitress in the pub beside us.

He was only back from Oz 3 weeks and he was on his way home from his girlfriends house.

Rip bro!

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Originally Posted by listermint

Running away from the guards with someones lively hood i suspect will do this to you. Waste of good organs ruining the lives of people they touch.

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Not the time or the place dude..it's not the reason I posted the thread.

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Originally Posted by 318iS54

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Originally Posted by 318iS54

The Meath one was just up the road from me, it's a B road that you could hold an F1 race on, it's a fantastic wide road that I've no idea why they built it so "good" if you get me.

Poor young lad, RIP!

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Turns out I do know the chaps sister as she's a waitress in the pub beside us.

He was only back from Oz 3 weeks and he was on his way home from his girlfriends house.

Rip bro!

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Sorry to hear it C..tough for all concerned :(

Apart from the one on the quays, they all have one thing in common - young drivers and performance cars do not mix, young drivers and 2am don't mix either. It's a sad waste of life, the devastation over the past 2 weekends is truly shocking.

How do you fix it ? Insurance is supposed to stop the high performance aspect, although the taxed as a 1L on the logbook trick gets around that, the bust I thought was helping too. But even in a 1L car, if you drive like a lunatic at 2 am, nobody is around to stop you. This type of carnage puts the spotlight on all young drivers including the responsible ones. Que Gay Byrne :angel:

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Originally Posted by Holy Moly

How do you fix it ? Insurance is supposed to stop the high performance aspect...

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A lot of them get away with it by getting a parent as the main driver on the policy and they go as named driver...


I wonder would an advance driving test along with the normal rules of the road one increase the level of skill among young drivers or would it maybe cause them to be more reckless??:idea:

I hate to say it, but who here when they were that age didn't think they were invincible and had the driving skills of Colin Mc Kray it's what being young is , risk taking in all aspects of life. The biggest difference I can see is in my day the fiesta we had could only do half the speed of the current family car nowadays giving you a much bigger margin of error compared to today's vehicles.
At 14-15 year's of age I thought nothing about doing close to 60 miles an hour on a bike down the Wicklow mountains on the wrong side of the road. I started back on the bike recently nearly shat myself coming down a Hill at half that speed
What I am trying to say is when we were young we all took risks in most things we did but when you mature self preservation (sense) sets in.
As for alcohol no excuse

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Originally Posted by Holy Moly

Apart from the one on the quays, they all have one thing in common - young drivers and performance cars do not mix, young drivers and 2am don't mix either. It's a sad waste of life, the devastation over the past 2 weekends is truly shocking.

How do you fix it ? Insurance is supposed to stop the high performance aspect, although the taxed as a 1L on the logbook trick gets around that, the bust I thought was helping too. But even in a 1L car, if you drive like a lunatic at 2 am, nobody is around to stop you. This type of carnage puts the spotlight on all young drivers including the responsible ones. Que Gay Byrne :angel:

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One looks like a 316i/318i the other a vw caddy hardly performance its never usually top of the range performance cars all I ever see are run of the mill yolks ran on a shoestring budget and pushed too far not taking the conditions of the road into account etc

Maybe rather then limit the engine size they should limit the bhp say 75bhp for anyone on an l plate or until they reach 23/24

Argument for no performance cars for learners is invalid. I got a BMW as fast as I could to learn in. 30 years old driving since 23 never even scraped a car parking and drive approx 90 miles a day. It's all about driver attude poor attitude = poor decisions.


Sent forward in time from my Nokia 3210

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Originally Posted by Lucifer

Argument for no performance cars for learners is invalid. I got a BMW as fast as I could to learn in. 30 years old driving since 23 never even scraped a car parking and drive approx 90 miles a day. It's all about driver attude poor attitude = poor decisions.


Sent forward in time from my Nokia 3210

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The consequences of a poor decision are a lot worst when your sitting behind the wheel of a car that can reach 0-60 in 6 seconds and your not ready for it my first car was a 1.2 at 18 more then enough iv steadily climbed the ladder for the last 7 years and am happy with were im at now the point is if I had a 150mph car at 18 god knows what would have happened your only learning then and 100bhp is enough similar to bikes you cant expect to hand a learner an R1 you have to crawl before you can walk

Just because you never crashed does not invalidate it in the slightest your one of many and not everyones the same

I dont belive high performance cars are the main problem though maybe we should just scrap bank holidays :rolleyes::D

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Originally Posted by Gar

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Originally Posted by Lucifer

Argument for no performance cars for learners is invalid. I got a BMW as fast as I could to learn in. 30 years old driving since 23 never even scraped a car parking and drive approx 90 miles a day. It's all about driver attude poor attitude = poor decisions.


Sent forward in time from my Nokia 3210

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The consequences of a poor decision are a lot worst when your sitting behind the wheel of a car that can reach 0-60 in 6 seconds and your not ready for it my first car was a 1.2 at 18 more then enough iv steadily climbed the ladder for the last 7 years and am happy with were im at now the point is if I had a 150mph car at 18 god knows what would have happened your only learning then and 100bhp is enough similar to bikes you cant expect to hand a learner an R1 you have to crawl before you can walk

Just because you never crashed does not invalidate it in the slightest your one of many and not everyones the same

I dont belive high performance cars are the main problem though maybe we should just scrap bank holidays :rolleyes::D

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I get what your saying Gar but I don't agree.
I feel vunerable in anything under a 1.6 I could never drive anything as slow again. However people running them on shoe strings cutting corners whenever/wherever insd in their Mams name etc causes problems. Plenty are responsible enough to have say a 1.9tdi or a 1.6 petrol as a first car.
It's the driver attitude I have the most problem with. Look at the States loads of people start driving very very early and have access to V8's from 17 etc and they have their road deaths average at the best in years. A little tution in school for us all mabye a LCVP module would do the country wonders. It's very easy to sensationalise road deaths and do nothing to tackle the cause.

Just my observation, I went for a drive with the missus yesterday headed from Limerick to lisdoonvarna then onto Doolin and on to Fanore. I had two instances of cars with a hardon to pass me out. Was it the fact that I was in an M3? As I never had bother like this in the jeep

One instance was coming from lisdoonvarna to Ennis if anyone knows the road it's fairly windy this car was right up my A## sniping in and out over the white line I just pulled in and left him at it as he was acting like a prize pillock not to mind been a dangerous git!

Had it again on dual carriageway where a 1.4 focus was tailgating me at 120 km/h again I pulled in an off he roared young child in a car seat in the back!! Easily doing 140+

Common denominator both were young male drivers!! Not tarring everyone with same brush but it is hardly a coincidence!

Should see the soccer moms on the m50/m3 in the mpv's 70 kids onboard and doing easily +80mph

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Originally Posted by Gar

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Originally Posted by Holy Moly

Apart from the one on the quays, they all have one thing in common - young drivers and performance cars do not mix, young drivers and 2am don't mix either. It's a sad waste of life, the devastation over the past 2 weekends is truly shocking.

How do you fix it ? Insurance is supposed to stop the high performance aspect, although the taxed as a 1L on the logbook trick gets around that, the bust I thought was helping too. But even in a 1L car, if you drive like a lunatic at 2 am, nobody is around to stop you. This type of carnage puts the spotlight on all young drivers including the responsible ones. Que Gay Byrne :angel:

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One looks like a 316i/318i the other a vw caddy hardly performance its never usually top of the range performance cars all I ever see are run of the mill yolks ran on a shoestring budget and pushed too far not taking the conditions of the road into account etc

Maybe rather then limit the engine size they should limit the bhp say 75bhp for anyone on an l plate or until they reach 23/24

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At least two were relatively performance related, the rally driver and the Donegal double tragedy, even the BMW you mention can fairly lick it along.
Even outside of that, normal family cars can give mid '90's hot hatch cars a run for their money, can reach very high speeds and results in road tragedies. But it's a combination, the ability of the car only being one, being invinsible at 2 am is another. It's sadly inevitable that young people will lose their lives on roads all over the world due to their own recklessness, how do you fix it ????

Imo it cant be fixed you can put everything under the sun in place but people are still going to have accidents and people will unfortunately die its inevitable

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Originally Posted by ciars

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Originally Posted by listermint

Running away from the guards with someones lively hood i suspect will do this to you. Waste of good organs ruining the lives of people they touch.

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Not the time or the place dude..it's not the reason I posted the thread.

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Well i was directly responding to what you asked ciars in your first post regardless if you like it or not you asked the question,

'how do you do this along that particular section of the quays'

So i gave a fairly valid response to it. Stealing a car and racing off with it will do that to you regardless of the section of the quays you are on.

The rest of my post has no bearing on it.

Lads the roads need re-designed.

Our roads are shockingly dangerous!

One step beyond the tarmac you either go arse over tit into a ditch or you hit something extremely hard. Either way, you're stuffed.

Limiting hp and restricting speed is counter productive as we need to move people and goods efficiently around the country.

The councils and governments need to step up and invest in the roads by increasing the amount of crash barriers on back roads and clearing roadside hazards like stone walls and trees.

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Originally Posted by listermint

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Originally Posted by ciars

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Originally Posted by listermint

Running away from the guards with someones lively hood i suspect will do this to you. Waste of good organs ruining the lives of people they touch.

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Not the time or the place dude..it's not the reason I posted the thread.

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Well i was directly responding to what you asked ciars in your first post regardless if you like it or not you asked the question,

'how do you do this along that particular section of the quays'

So i gave a fairly valid response to it. Stealing a car and racing off with it will do that to you regardless of the section of the quays you are on.

The rest of my post has no bearing on it.

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Like I've already said man, comment's like "Waste of good organs ruining the lives of people they touch" have no place in this thread (wasn't the thread intention) or on this site - regardless of the circumstances.

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Originally Posted by ciars

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Originally Posted by listermint

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Originally Posted by ciars

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Originally Posted by listermint

Running away from the guards with someones lively hood i suspect will do this to you. Waste of good organs ruining the lives of people they touch.

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Not the time or the place dude..it's not the reason I posted the thread.

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Well i was directly responding to what you asked ciars in your first post regardless if you like it or not you asked the question,

'how do you do this along that particular section of the quays'

So i gave a fairly valid response to it. Stealing a car and racing off with it will do that to you regardless of the section of the quays you are on.

The rest of my post has no bearing on it.

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Like I've already said man, comment's like "Waste of good organs ruining the lives of people they touch" have no place in this thread (wasn't the thread intention) or on this site - regardless of the circumstances.

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All im saying is you asked a question, You shouldnt include a stolen vehicle that the driver in question was held at knifepoint and taxi hijacked to a thread on road deaths. Im sure the other familes wouldnt like your comparison. So the thread was flawed from the get go.

No one likes to see loss of life Ciars, But its not fair to compare the accidents as the incidents dont merit comparsion. Its obvious why the first one crashed and i responded with the why.

Granted my thoughts on the subject at hand differ from your own. But just because someone disagrees begs a wonder why you opened the thread and as i said already 'asked a specific question'

If the thread was meant as a memorium to the incidents then so be it. Remove the question and remove my posts.

James, you yet again miss or choose to ignore my point? Comments such as what you wrote are not necessary in this thread. The intention of the thread was the destruction on our roads, especially bank holiday weekends. For the record I do not disagree with your points, just the manner in which you've commented! It's nothing personal.

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Originally Posted by Gar

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Originally Posted by Holy Moly

Apart from the one on the quays, they all have one thing in common - young drivers and performance cars do not mix, young drivers and 2am don't mix either. It's a sad waste of life, the devastation over the past 2 weekends is truly shocking.

How do you fix it ? Insurance is supposed to stop the high performance aspect, although the taxed as a 1L on the logbook trick gets around that, the bust I thought was helping too. But even in a 1L car, if you drive like a lunatic at 2 am, nobody is around to stop you. This type of carnage puts the spotlight on all young drivers including the responsible ones. Que Gay Byrne :angel:

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One looks like a 316i/318i the other a vw caddy hardly performance its never usually top of the range performance cars all I ever see are run of the mill yolks ran on a shoestring budget and pushed too far not taking the conditions of the road into account etc

Maybe rather then limit the engine size they should limit the bhp say 75bhp for anyone on an l plate or until they reach 23/24

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iv been driving since I was 17 I am now 22 with 5 years no claims and a CLEAN licence doing 20k annually do you think it's fair that I should have to give up my 318is that I worked very hard to get and have put thousands into to get a 75 hp car ? All I'm saying is it's easy to suggest things when you don't fall into the Category

Lots of hate on younger drivers going on in this thread,I know statistically young males are a higher risk and involved in more accidents. Personally I'm fucked up being stopped by Garda because I'm a young lad in a BMW and getting extortionate insurance quotes, yeah sure I drive over the limit a bit sometimes but how many of you can say honestly you don't ?

Basically what I'm saying is don't tar us all with the one brush I drive to the conditions within my ability and the cars limitations (have been to a track and found the cars limitations) which is more than a lot of individuals at least a decade older than me do ! Rant over

Are you on an L plate 5 years now ?

L plate or till they 23/24. Not having a go at you and hope you didn't take offence just using it as an example, I wouldn't like to be restricted because some fool in a civic or skyline thinks he's a racing driver,full licence since I was 18

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Originally Posted by dean-e36

L plate or till they 23/24. Not having a go at you and hope you didn't take offence just using it as an example, I wouldn't like to be restricted because some fool in a civic or skyline thinks he's a racing driver,full licence since I was 18

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Maybe I should have been clearer what I should have siad was learners or people under 25

Above 25 I feel most are mature to drive correctly and under that and a learner driver should not be allowed to drive cars over 100bhp I stand by what I siad , im not writing laws nobody pays attention to a post on a forum but at the end of the day teenagers/learners should be limited in there choice of car

engine size doesn't cut it since you can have a 2.0 with +300bhp a friend of mine killed his best mate in car a few years back the car he was driving had 350bhp he was 19 at the time and way to young for that much power he got 4 years in the joy and has to live with killing his best mate for the rest of his life

Problem is even a 100bhp car will do 120mph and will do plenty of damage in the wrong hands. Most of the bad driving I see on the roads is by older people who are just not thinking when they are driving. They're just going on autopilot in there own world.
There really is no simple answer to it I think.

Thats true dave but it will take a week to do it , a car that reach 60 in 5/6 seconds is a lot more dangerous in the wrong hands in my eyes

Your right though there is no simple answer I was merely thinking out loud earlier people are going to die and accidents are bound to happen regardless what law is brought In

Ah sure there is no clear answer. In my instance I had a 112 bhp scirocco when I was young and drove it flat out to keep up the speed, later with higher powered cars I just squirted when it was safe.

I agree with you that 300+ is too much power for someone with less than 2 years on the road but to be 24 restricted to 100HP our opinions differ there , end of the day it's down to the individual to have cop on and drive safely regardless of age

I also think a bit of track time for young lads to find the limits of there cars is also a good thing. It's also a good outlet and a chance to push the cars in a safe environment.

Learning how to react when the car loses control would be a great thing they should also add motorway driving to the test

Anyway nice healthy debate good to see a difference of opinions on threads it gets people talking :cool:

Better road signage & surfaces, plus more driver training & education, is a good point to start. What people of all ages and genders are doing out there on Irish roads is shocking. And the strange thing is that I would say we have a far lower average speed of driving than any other European country I've been to, and yet that's the current fixation in Ireland

Doesn't matter how safe any young driver says he/she is, the statistics are still there and can't really be argued with. For every one young driver who takes every move on the road with caution there are probably 20 out there taking major risks and in a lot of cases are surrounded by their mates who are also at risk.

I've never been in an accident(except one at like 5mph and only damaged a small tree) and I've been driving since I was 19, touch wood that doesn't change but many I knew when i was a young driver wrecked cars by being eejits on the road and what that says to me is that over all we needed to be better drivers.

Advanced driver training is the way to go, the current driving test isn't cutting it i don't think it ever has really.

And how do you feel about The generation that got "free" licences ? Never had to sit a test

So a few things

Had a tap myself at the weekend. Arse went out and the front into a pillar. Nothing I could do. Slippery surface etc, no such thing as an accident though as I was driving I was in control. So it's my error. I am just a shade over 31 (still got it too :P) and I have a full license yet any of the lessons I did never demonstrated how I could have pulled the car out of this and saved it. I was only lucky in the sense that it was at low speed and I wasn't injured.

Lessons should include how to avoid or save yourself in situations like the above as farting about at 30 mph in a micra on the test day around town is not being realistic and IS costing lives. Another example is with an L plate you cannot drive on a motorway so you cannot and will not be shown (in my experience) just that, how to behave when on one. Yet pass your test and you are free to roam the country on these roads, these faster, busier and more confusing roads. Is that right?

The point was raised that signage and road surfaces should be better. I agree on this point. I don't think that this will be implemented though as there are far better places to spend that money like Gay Byrne and tv adverts for how to use and drive on a motorway.....oh wait!:rolleyes:

In regards to limiting, same as motorbikes, BHP to a certain age bracket? Lads we are all old, wise and wrinkley enough to know this is horseshit as engine swaps are common place and systems in this country are abused and not regulated correctly. Personally, I have done some severe damage in a tap at low speeds. As said regardless of BHP, cars will get up to speed and carry momentum and inflict damage. Also if you restrict engine capacity to an age bracket, what happens after they pass that age. Go from 75bhp to 300 bhp? Are they any more competent because they have been schooled in farting about town in a micra? Nope, they're in a wall because they have not the skills or experience to cope with power of that scale.

The fundamentals are the issue here IMO

Driving culture in Ireland is only attempting to join the present day

Our roads..well you're on them everyday...need I say more!

The powers that be are being seen to be doing something proactive these days, but it's lip service as I feel the funds are not there to match the intent.

Currently rules of the road are not being enforced enough and while punitive are not having the desired effect.

Other approaches need to be adopted. Futile? What's one life worth?

Above all else it's you and I and our approach we take is the key element here. If we all take it upon ourselves to be better then you encourage a culture and promote change.